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JE

IP: 69.152.132.140

Jun 30, 07 - 8:16 PM

Downtown Revival!

Took some pics of downtown in a close proximity to the settles. Please note the lack of any businesses. Now how much do you think it would truly cost to restore downtown?

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Here is some classy parking for the settles future patrons.

Dang it, the sign said open 24 hours, guess I caught them in hour 25.

Not industrial at all.

Some nice places for visitors to check out.

Why is this place not being preserved for it's historical value? It was built in 1910 after all, 20 years before the settles.

I can concur with this man.

Best signs of all.

87 isnt the way to go?

Wonder why this place was constructed off of 87??

*!*

IP: 69.152.133.77

Jul 1st, 2007 - 12:31 AM

Re: Downtown Revival!

I thought this was going to be a thread about the "God and Country" 4th of July celebration downtown.

I do note that it appears corrugated metal which looks like it belongs on a garden storage shed and not in downtown architectural applications is being used with alarming regularity. If we had a properly enforced preservation ordinance, that wouldn't be happening. Instead of using corrugated metal which in section might look like _A_^_A_^_A_^_A_ with plenty of busy, pronounced ridges, why not use a more traditional looking panel with only a few smaller, less obtrusive ridges which in section looks more like -^------^-- and resembles old timey tin or modern standing seam? Same price, drastically different effects, in my opinion.

JE, The "classy parking lot" line got me chuckling.

Hwy 87 developed over a number of decades, though. Why did McDonalds move from HWY 87 and I-20 to its present location? I think the answer if obvious: WAL-MART*. Real estate developers often look to the longer term: what could downtown Big Spring be like in 2017, not 2008.

You missed the exposed electrical lines and transformers running down downtown Big Spring alleys.
How about the hideous crapper in the Heart of the City park? Take a moment and consider that the attractive Petroleum Building was built approx. seventy years before the crapper. Amazing that with seventy years of technology and experimentation and instruction to build on, that crapper is what "we" came up with to enhance the downtown. It would be laughable if it were not so tragic and pathetic.

The photo with the three aluminum doors is a puzzler. I have no idea where it is.

I believe the San Franciscan is going to try to put in sturdier glass block instead of pane glass as an answer to vandalism, etc. Would you be wild about putting in an $800 window every how often. The owners of the San Franciscan invested in downtown before Heritage Square or the Settles project. Have you been inside the building? I can imagine that folks visiting the Settles Hotel might enjoy an adult beverage, and cigarette smokers would find a safe harbor from the City's ill-enforced smoking ordinance given that it is a bar. Why do I say ill-enforced? How many months are we into the ordinance with how many businesses still not complying by having signs at the entrances?

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Bonus:

Excellent Thing of the Month

http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore_200608.html

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* http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n12/lanc01_.html

"Wal-Mart is about price, so much so that it has created a reification of cheapness, in which cheapness becomes a mystical quality, a Ding an sich or fundamental essence, separate from questions about utility or practicality or how on earth a thing can be put on sale for such a price. Charles Fishman, in his punchy and valuable book The Wal-Mart Effect, cites the example of Vlasic pickles, the most popular brand in the US. Wal-Mart talked Vlasic into pricing the pickles so that a gallon jar was on sale for $2.97. That is a bizarre, surreal price for a gallon of pickled cucumbers; no one had ever seen such a jar outside a deli, and no one had any real use for it, since even if you’re a pickleholic you’ll only manage to eat about a quarter of a gallon before the remaining pickles go mouldy. It had never occurred to anybody that there was such a thing as a market for a gallon jar of pickles. Even so, priced at $2.97, there was something so magnetising about this Brobdignagian vat of pickles – something so alluring about the way it embodied the Platonic ideal of cheapness, in and for itself – that Wal-Mart was soon selling 200,000 gallons of pickles a week. The ‘scary part of the Vlasic story’, as Fishman points out, is that:..."

JE

IP: 69.152.132.140

Jul 1st, 2007 - 1:07 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

The point is, to revitalize downtown to the postcard standard is going to take millions and millions of dollars, no one is going to do that, none of the businesses that aren't directly on 3rd or 4th in that area stay alive very long.

Also, did you notice the absolute lack of traffic in those pics? And that was on a friday evening, there was plenty on 87 and i-20 however.

Sick To My Stomach

IP: 75.110.244.225

Jul 1st, 2007 - 1:34 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

God, I love how ******* negative you are. It makes me bleed excitement that there are people in this town that can ****** **** and moan about the problems and do NOTHING to improve what they are complaining about.

Here is a thought. MOVE. Pack your **** and move to a different town. I am so sick and tired of people with the biggest mouths having the smallest amount of energy put into making things better.

Shannon ran his mouth, but I applaud him running for mayor and wanting to make changes. You want to make downtown better, buy a building, fix it up and start a trend. It takes one person, one vision. One mouth to close and replace the noise with action. Will it be you? Doubt it. You are one of those people that talk all **** day about how bad things are and never do anything to change it. I am willing to bet that your personal life is the same **** way. How many excuses do you have for the shortcomings in your life that are your fault and you will NEVER change.

Grow up. Shut up. Move on. Or do something.

I am so sick of this ****.

JE

IP: 69.152.132.140

Jul 1st, 2007 - 1:51 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

Sorry that I am holding you at gun point and forcing you to read this site.

And sorry to also say my personal life is fine, no real shortcomings, I am very content. I get to go to work, pay my bills, taxes, and invest in my retirement.
My problem is not that people have a dream of a renewed downtown, only that we the people are forced to sink our hard earned money through taxes for their dream and benefit.
I will not be throwing money away on downtown. Though I hear if you are interested Mr. Ryan might contribute some tax work for you.
Who knows, you could be the one.

Sick To My Stomach

IP: 75.110.244.225

Jul 1st, 2007 - 3:38 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

Honestly, the biggest gripe that I have with you is EVERYTHING is negative. I dont think you have ever had something good to say. I bet you kick puppies.

JE

IP: 70.255.96.136

Jul 1st, 2007 - 3:47 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

No, I have, just hasn't been what you have wanted to read.
Kick puppies?
Well suffice to say I hate that you wont be getting any solvency to your grievances with me as I intend to keep doing what I am doing.

Now for the big question, where in those pictures or my posts am I wrong?

Sick To My Stomach

IP: 75.110.244.225

Jul 1st, 2007 - 4:29 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

I see potential in those pics. It is easy to look at it and say "What Crap!". I see more. Take some pics in three years and lets talk.

JE

IP: 70.255.96.136

Jul 1st, 2007 - 5:22 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

Then you should have no problem buying one of the vacant properties and proving me wrong.

*!*

IP: 70.246.65.10

Jul 1st, 2007 - 7:49 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

JE wrote: "The point is, to revitalize downtown to the postcard standard is going to take millions and millions of dollars, no one is going to do that, none of the businesses that aren't directly on 3rd or 4th in that area stay alive very long."

Actually, it's going to take more than money. It's going to take intelligence,creativity, good taste, tolerance for new ideas, and high standards...wider sidewalks, narrower streets, and lots and lots of trees.

Having sewer gas and bat guano/ pigeon dropping odors permeating downtown--something accepted or ignored now--will need to become unacceptable. Want to eat Eggs Florentine al fresco on the 4th floor of the Settles with pigeon dropping/ bat guano/ sewer gas odors wafting up and about?

The likes of using corrugated metal which belongs on a barn/tool shed as an exterior architectural feature is a troubling development in my opinion. A proper perservation ordinance and proper enforcement is much needed.

The cartoonishly bad Heart of the City park crapper betrays the advances in architecture and design over seventy years since the attractive Petroleum Building was constructed. Why not build a park which complements the attractive architecture of the Petroleum Building and Old State National Bank? This is a critical, unanswered question?

In Midland, Texas, millions of dollars have been spent on Wall Street. I am not impressed with the result (so far).

Have you ever been wowed in Mexico or some poorer country with the immense charm and beauty exuded by the natural [architectural] aesthetic of a dirt poor village? How is that possible? Millons of dollars were not spent, yet there is magic. Go to Burro Alley in Abilene, Texas and tell me that something charming and attractive has to be super-expensive.

JE

IP: 70.255.96.136

Jul 2nd, 2007 - 4:01 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

"Actually, it's going to take more than money. It's going to take intelligence,creativity, good taste, tolerance for new ideas, and high standards...wider sidewalks, narrower streets, and lots and lots of trees."

None of that can be accomplished without the almight dollar though.
I just dont see someone/groups of individuals investing the millions (probably 100 million plus) to revitalize downtown when the majority of money is not nor will not be spent there again.

Rita

IP: 74.196.1.201

Jul 3rd, 2007 - 6:25 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

Isn't it too bad that the money that was/is being spent on the golf course could have been spent on kick-starting the downtown area. Small business loans of say $100,000, would have attracted possible business interest for some of the abandonded stores. If I had the money I'd LOVE to rent (and fix up) a store downtown. Also, wouldn't it be nice to have an old-fashioned ice cream parlor downtown. We also need a nice SHADY area for people to sit when it's so hot outside, maybe even with a small board where upcoming events could be posted by various organizations.
Yep, downtown COULD be a nice place to shop and visit with a little less closed minds and a lot more open hearts.

cindy

IP: 69.55.193.39

Jul 3rd, 2007 - 9:42 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

AJ why don't you ask the local police why the smoking ordinance is not enforced. I have a picture, dated, at La Posada, with the person smoking in the bar or restaurant. They do not have a smoking permit, I checked with Kenny Davis. There is no enforcement whatsoever, except in my case. However, I did purchase plastic signs that were also in braille, and they have been pulled off my walls and taken. If you want to bring the smoking issue up again, here I am. Cindy RMG

JE

IP: 70.255.96.136

Jul 4th, 2007 - 4:30 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

I will still frequent the Red Mesa. The atmosphere is nice, the lavatories are always spotless, and the food is good.
Just keep collecting evidence of others breaking the ordinance, then when they come to you show them their bias in the enforcement.

ME!!!!!!!

IP: 75.111.211.87

Jul 5th, 2007 - 2:10 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

We were told LaPosada did have a permit for smoking in the bar.

JE

IP: 70.255.96.136

Jul 5th, 2007 - 5:10 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

As I pulled into wal-mart today I saw a panhandler (as usual) I thought to myself I wonder why a panhandler would be at a business on 87 instead of a business downtown.
By certain sentiments relayed to me by people I would certainly have thought the best place to panhandle wouldn't be anyhwere near HWY 87, FM 700, or I-20

Even the bums know better.

*!*

IP: 68.90.138.156

Jul 5th, 2007 - 7:46 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

Actually, JE, in an earlier post I pointed out that the McDonalds at the intersection of Hwy 87 and Interstate 20 closed and a new McDonalds was built near Wal-Mart. The Big Spring Wal-Mart draws shoppers from as far away as Big Lake. I also mentioned that I believe that the FM 700 Sonic--more removed from Hwy 87/ Gregg St. than the Settles--performs better than the Gregg St. Sonic. The FM 700 Sonic has been recognized by Sonic HQ with a landscaping award. I prefer to get Strawberry Limeades from the FM 700 Sonic, on account of the peaceful, pretty setting.

How about challenging yourself with a simple road trip to Abilene to see the Hotel Wooten [Apts], Paramount Theater, and Burro Alley?

JE

IP: 70.255.96.136

Jul 5th, 2007 - 7:58 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

Why does the hotel wooten concern me? How does it concern you?
You are failing to mention or recognize that Abilene also has a bigger population, economy, and has some actual tourist attractions.

cindy

IP: 69.55.193.39

Jul 10th, 2007 - 9:29 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

I called Kenny Davis and asked who had smoking permits, unless it has recently been issued La Posada does not have one. I am only going on what I was told by the code enforcement office and that there is not a permit posted. Please let me know if I am miss-informed. It makes a huge difference to me, we have been following the law and I am not happy that this ordinance has not been equally enforced as usual by the city. Cindy

*!*

IP: 75.18.52.1

Jul 11th, 2007 - 2:17 AM

Re: Downtown Revival!

JE wrote: "Why does the hotel wooten concern me? How does it concern you?
You are failing to mention or recognize that Abilene also has a bigger population, economy, and has some actual tourist attractions."
-----------------------------------------

The Settles and the Wooten were designed by the same architect. The Wooten has been restored and the Settles is (apparently) set to be similarly restored (with the help of our tax money). Road trips are refreshing.

I went to the Willie Nelson concert at the Dorothy Garrett Colisem here in Big Spring some months ago; I understand folks from miles around (incl. Abilene) attended the event. I think approx. 1,000,000 persons live within a 110 mile radius of Big Spring...

-----------------------------------------
cindy wrote: "I called Kenny Davis and asked who had smoking permits, unless it has recently been issued La Posada does not have one. I am only going on what I was told by the code enforcement office and that there is not a permit posted. Please let me know if I am miss-informed. It makes a huge difference to me, we have been following the law and I am not happy that this ordinance has not been equally enforced as usual by the city.
-----------------------------------------

My 2 cents:

What good is a "he said-she said" phone conversation? You need to submit an open records request and get documentation.
This

http://www.splc.org/foiletter.asp

is a link to the Fully Automated, Fill-in-the-Blanks State Open Records Law Request Letter Generator. Fill in the blanks requesting the names of all restaurants/ businesses with smoking permits, etc. and then email/mail/fax/ or hand deliver your request to the appropriate city official. Have friends/ employees do some recon of these other places, documenting date, time, place, etc. This will lay some groundwork for any unequal enforcement 'complaint' you might choose to file in the future.

JE

IP: 75.31.14.132

Jul 12th, 2007 - 7:20 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

Did 1,000,000 show up to the concert?

cindy

IP: 69.55.193.39

Jul 19th, 2007 - 11:12 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

My mother had the downtown grill for several years, until 1988 when we opened RMG, my brother had a law office on the corner, where the train museum was. My grandfathers office was on 2nd street somewhere around the downtown grill or albertos, the downtown area in dead. Let's face it. We must attract industry to move here, to bring familys and money to town. Shops, restaurants, bars, etc, are not going to make anyone move here. We need to attract a plant with people willing to come here, that brings money to a town, not pipe dreams of a revitilized down town.
They go hand in hand, Estes Park, Colorado Springs, Albuq, keep going on, but there was something there to attract the people to move there. Oh wait Kerrville, or Fredsiburg, let's see they have a bizzzziolne people to attract from Austin, SA. Ect. Judge Moore you know we can't compete with Fredbur sp, why do you think this will work, and once again where are the employees and the customers going to come from. If you build it they will come is only in the movies. Cindy

*!*

IP: 70.255.103.12

Jul 20th, 2007 - 1:01 AM

Re: Downtown Revival!

Why would a manufacturer build a plant here when workers earn six dollars A DAY in Mexico or maybe 70 cents A DAY in China?

The first trickle of a wave of 76 million Baby Boomer retirees is retiring. A number of them are moving as far away a Panama and Costa Rica. If we could get 1000 middle class Californian retirees--priced out of California--to relocate here, the transformative effect would be palpable. An attractively revitalized downtown will help attract retirees.

JE

IP: 75.31.14.132

Jul 21st, 2007 - 11:55 AM

Re: Downtown Revival!

"Why would a manufacturer build a plant here when workers earn six dollars A DAY in Mexico or maybe 70 cents A DAY in China?"

That logic seems to have worked well for GM and Ford, funny that the foreign makers such as honda and toyota are building new factories in america and toyota surpassed GM as the #1 auto producer.

*!*

IP: 75.36.98.42

Jul 21st, 2007 - 2:21 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

JE wrote: "That logic seems to have worked well for GM and Ford, funny that the foreign makers such as honda and toyota are building new factories in america and toyota surpassed GM as the #1 auto producer."
------------------------------------------------------

I don't think of "factories" and "assembly plants" as being interchangeable. The Japanese corporate execs would likely beam after reading your post. [I believe a local manufacturer has opened or is opening a new factory in Mexico: I wonder why there and not here?]

http://www.businessfacilities.com/blog/2007/06/toyota-done-building-us-plants.html
"...The plants have scored political points for the company as it ascends to the dominant world position in automobiles, but it may be facing excess capacity in U.S. factories. Furthermore, the factories in the U.S. are not configured to be as flexible as some of its factories in Japan, which can produce more than six vehicle models, as opposed to one or two per plant in the U.S. And the most interesting fact: right now, it is cheaper for Toyota to build a car in Japan and export it here than it is to build it here (thanks largely to the weakness of the yen versus the dollar)."

http://supplyexcellence.com/blog/2006/07/21/could-the-us-be-the-next-low-cost-country/
"...This supply strategy seems to be paying off. In a matter of 20 years, these Japanese transplants have gone from being the enemy of U.S. businesses and communities (particularly in the Midwest) to becoming the favored customers and automakers in America. Strategic supply management and manufacturing moves (coupled with producing high quality vehicles) have made Toyota and Honda vehicles top-sellers in the U.S."

*!*

IP: 65.70.108.194

Sep 23rd, 2007 - 12:32 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

http://www.katu.com/news/business/9867701.html

Kalama yacht builder's jobs set sail for China

"KALAMA, Washington - A Cowlitz County company is one of the latest American firms forced to pack up and move overseas in a fight to survive in a global economy. ...Clark said six other yacht makers across the U.S. have already been forced to close their doors because they could not compete with the Chinese factories."

JE

IP: 69.152.132.8

Sep 23rd, 2007 - 1:18 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_econindicators_gdppict_20070727

*!*

IP: 65.70.108.194

Sep 24th, 2007 - 12:59 AM

Re: Downtown Revival!

http://www.mises.org/story/2302

Don't Believe Those Inflation Numbers

"...Expanding the money supply creates revenue for the state and falsely raises GDP. They are able to hide the resulting inflation by choosing the right basket for their price index.

If the chosen basket starts to indicate high inflation rates and the resulting low rates of real economic growth, government officials simply drop some of the items from the basket and report a lower rate of inflation. In this way some of the inflation is not removed from the nominal GDP numbers, making economic growth appear higher."

*...*

IP: 65.67.238.169

Oct 15th, 2007 - 6:43 PM

Re: Downtown Revival!

Love this forum,
Sounds like we are getting a few more
people interest in down town.
*...*

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